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[04.20.03] Petit Design Before regime change in Iraq became a war, it was a policy project. And the staggering success in moving this quixotic project from the neocon margins all the way to the forefront of national policy will be written about for years to come. Realizing this, the anti-interventionists have now trained their guns on the "secretive" "neocon" "cabal" with its "grand designs" to "remake the world in our image." How many more "adventures" do they have in store for us, the isolationists now ask plaintively?

Reading Paul Kennedy's version of this tired, frustrated screed brought home for me just why the Iraq-isolationists got hosed so badly in this fight. And it's really quite simple: ultimately, you can't beat something with nothing. Nowhere — not once — in Kennedy's 2,029 word argument on "the perils of empire" does he suggest any alternative to the alleged neocon "grand design." As a case for self-abnegating humility, it's fine. As a blueprint for U.S. foreign policy, it's not.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. So long as the Iraq-isolationists continue framing their message in negative, almost nihilistic, terms, they won't be able to shake the perception that their Middle East policy is nothing more than one of neglect. Benign neglect, perhaps, but still neglect. Given the Iraqi people's widely expressed desire for freedom from Saddam, the movement to do nothing and keep him there now looks very much like the front for inhumanity and neglect we always suspected it was.

Of course, it's not always the case in politics that the side clamoring for action gets its way. But 9/11 changed that. The dynamics of our foreign policy were transformed and the situation cried out for a decisive long-term solution encompassing the entire Middle East, and of which the Iraq war and the Arab-Israeli conflict are a part.

Most people instinctively understand this necessity, and I think the evidence lies in the fact that President Bush's approval ratings didn't rise to their post-9/11 levels. Americans weren't giving their assent to a new war but acknowledging 9/11 and the regime change in Iraq as events in the same war. Operation Iraqi Freedom was to the World Trade Center what D-Day was to Pearl Harbor.

Amazingly, the Iraq-isolationists now punching out keystrokes against the newly-"exposed" neocon plot still don't seem to get this. Kennedy blithely dismisses the necessity of responding decisively to 9/11 and urges us to write off this 3,000 casualty event as a dead loss: "The United States is unchallenged militarily and sees no rival Great Power in sight. Yet it has taken little comfort from this. Since 9/11, it feels less secure and is spending massive amounts on armaments." (Emphasis mine.) To Kennedy, all the post-9/11 security concerns seem somehow unwarranted, the event itself some sort of aberration. The Iraq-isolationists reach new heights in this self-delusion when they call homeland security measures "fictitious" in their Oscar acceptance speeches.

In the end, the isolationist, anti-war coterie got whipped because they were out of touch with this basic reality of the post-9/11 world. Instead of bothering to come up with a "grand design" of their own to compete with the neocons, they offered nothing, and thus couldn't be taken seriously. Even now, their idea is to just let the Middle East fester, and hope everything turns out for the best.

After 9/11, the dominant concern in Europe and elsewhere was that we'd lash out vapidly in blind rage, go home, and leave others to pick up the pieces. Now that we've made clear that we are in fact in this for the long haul, and that we ourselves will put the pieces back together, the criticism has shifted from thoughtful internationalism to a sort of obscurantist isolationism, skeptical of anything we could do to spread freedom.

Kennedy picks up on this thread by comparing us to the British, who also had hoped to remake the Mideast in their own image and failed. (They did a fairly decent job of it here and in India — it is too bad things didn't turn out better for them.) Historical warning served, I suppose — except for the one key difference Kennedy overlooks: the future we're offering differs dramatically from what the British were offering. The British hoped merely to swap out one colonial ruler for another. We're tapping into the genuine hatred of tyranny that runs wide and deep in Iraq (as we now know) and with those who chafe under the Mullahs' rule in Iran, and we offer freedom and self-government — the same freedom eagerly embraced by the Kurds in northern Iraq. It's not going to be easy, and yes, they still may not like us in the end. But what a basic understanding of freedom will impart is a distaste for resolving low-level political differences through violence. They'll dislike us the way Europeans do, not the way the hateful Mullahs do, and if we can pull it off, that in itself will be a thousand-fold improvement.

The major current running through Kennedy's piece is the need to avoid empire, opposition to which is considered a good unto itself. (Here I hesitate to pile on since I realize Kennedy's just issuing a pro-forma defense of that book he wrote fifteen years ago, down to the ominous references of economic challenges from the Far East and Europe.) But he doesn't convince us that empire is what we're actually avoiding. Defense spending stands at 3.5% of GDP, and about 4% with the war, down from 6% throughout the Cold War and a far cry from the 11% of GDP it took to fight in Vietnam. This time, we won with half the manpower and in half the time, and should we have to do something like this again in a dozen years, the results will be even more impressive. Moreover, proponents of the war were called "chickenhawks" because so many hadn't served in uniform. That's what happens when you have a relatively small and agile military and it's probably one of the surest signs we're not an empire. Empires tend to enforce forced conscription of all adult males, making the "chickenhawk" argument irrelevant; we don't. Paradoxically, technology has enabled us to escape empire, in the sense that resources have to be massively diverted from productive use into successive military campaigns, leading to long-term civilizational decline, yadda yadda yadda. That isn't happening.

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Of course, if this regime change in Iraq thing is all a neocon cabal, how does that explain PL 105-338, Iraq Liberation Act of 1998?

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.

Signed into law by the President in 1998. Near as I can tell, Bill Clinton was not a neocon.

Also voting, 157 non-neocon Democrats in the House, and it passed with unanimous consent in the Senate.

Of course, that leaves open the possibility that the neocon cabal is much bigger than we can even imagine!

Posted by: blaster at April 21, 2003 11:05:58 AM

Kennedy once again is demonstrating his flawed judgement. His book on the great powers of the past half millenium was excellent -- especially it's economic information. It laid out the pertinent facts. Where he failed was in his interpretation of those facts as applied to the current powers in the mid-80's. All the factors that led to the collapse of the USSR, to the EU's lagging behind the US, to the decade-long Japanese stagnation, and to the continued US growth boom can be found in the book. Kennedy simply couldn't judge those factors impartially (living and working in an academic environment probably didn't help). America's faults were exaggerated and it's strength's underestimated and vice versa for the other powers. Kennedy lost the proper perspective that he used nicely on the past when it came to judging current events. So it's no surprise that he's doing it again.

Posted by: LenS at April 21, 2003 11:06:55 AM

Those on the right opposed to the Iraqi war were not operating out of nihilism nor out of any inability to forge a grand strategy for American foreign policy. In fact we have a very plain and coherent approach to foreign affairs -- insuring that the US military exist to protect Americans -- their liberty and property -- not to fanatically pursue a radical Jacobin agenda to make the world "safe for democracy." Our military exists to protect the concrete facts of our country and its existence, not to encapsulate an ideology that pushes "democracy" via American bombs on any country we don't like.

Opposition to the Iraqi war is so self-evident it hardly needs much articulation -- Iraq has no ties to Al-Qaida and is not a threat to the United States.

Remember that harboring WMD is not itself a reason to go to war since other nations like Israel, Pakistan and India possess nuclear weapons. The raison d'etre for the Iraqi war was not just that Saddam was pursuing WMD, but that he had a clear intention of using them against the United States.

Why this should be is not exactly clear, since the United States had a deliberate policy of arming Iraq during the 1980's to thwart the spread of fundamentalist Islam coming out of Iran. Saddam was a brutal dictator back then, but we had no qualms about building his war machine. In fact the US was one of the few nations unwilling to pass a condemnation of Iraq after his use of chemical weapons against the Kurds.

A moral dilemma that neo-conservatives never seem to understand is that if Saddam is evil and immoral for using bio-chemical weapons, then why isn't the US evil and immoral for arming him with such weapons?

Propaganda comes in handy in wars like these, and that is why neo-cons throw out so much spurious invective against Saddam, distort our previous relationship with him, and engage in bizzare conspiracy theories about a "link" between Saddam and Osama. The hypocrisy of the neo-cons is too much to bear in the open light of truth, so they resort to name-calling and lies when faced with the facts.

Saddam was never a threat to the United States -- not even his neighbors. He had no involvement in 9-11, so any effort to rationalize this was as an extension of the "war on terror" is to, as Thomas Friedman of the New York Times said, take this country to war on the "wings of a lie."

It surely does not make the neo-cons looks good when lies and propaganda are the only methods they have to support their foreign policy.

Ruffini mumbles about the the isolationists willing to let the Middle East fester -- whatever that means. Paleos have a real pro-American strategy to the problem -- let's secure the border, streamline the visa process, and make sure we have enough man-power to guard the border. Neocons, however, would rather send troops to die on the other side of the globe than lift a finger to protect the border. The wishes of the anti-American Vincente Fox are obviously more important to Bush and neocons than is the safety of Americans.

Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 21, 2003 03:22:45 PM

Edwin,

I don't know who these "neocons" are that you speak of.

I, for one, believe that we can tighten our borders AND intervene abroad, unless you think the 82nd Airborne and 101st Air Assault are best deployed in trenches on the border?

As for Saddam not posing a threat to his neighbors, tell that to the Kuwaitis. After all, they BOUGHT many of the weapons that Iraqis used in the war against Iran---and bought much of the food that Iraqis ate as well. Yet, that somehow did not keep Saddam from turning around and trying to take them a mere year or three after the end of the Iran-Iraq war.

Some leaders can be appeased. Some cannot. Learning the difference is essential, even for paleos. Refusing to learn the difference is remarkable, even for paleos.

Oh, and I seem to recall the US State Department, back in '88, not only condemning Iraq's use of CW, but allowing a UN Resolution to pass to that effect (although I may well be wrong about that). More to the point, the US neither armed Iraq conventionally, nor did it arm Iraq w/ CBW.

Iraq has its own chemical industry, which can produce CW, thank-you-very-much. And the much vaunted "US sales" were of cultures that were justified under any vaccination and biomed research program. You might argue that Iraq didn't need that, but you cannot argue that it was KNOWN at the time that it would be used for BW R&D.

Posted by: Dean at April 21, 2003 03:32:08 PM

Dean,


"I don't know who these "neocons" are that you speak of."

Well, I hate to give away answers, but I'll give you a hint -- you have recently posted a message on a neocon bulletin board run by someone who has devoted his life to sucking up to neocons.

Before the onset of war Iraq was not a threat to its neighbors, that is why the Arab world -- along with much of the rest of the world -- did not support a US invasion. I am not exactly sure why you brought up Kuwait. If I recall that was over ten years ago, and during this war there was no Arab consensus to topple the Hussein regime.

I do not know where you got the information that our alliance with Iraq was strictly of a non-military nature. This directly contradicts National Security Directive 114 that instructed the Pentagon to use any available means to insure that Iraq does lose the war with Iran. Your statements are also contradicted by the fact that the Reagan Administration removed Iraq from the list of states that sponsor terrorim in 1982 just to make such weapons transfers legal.

When Donald Rumself visited Iraq in December of 1983 Iraq was using chemical weapons on a daily basis against the Iranians, but there was no direct condemnation by the United States.

Declassified documents show that we shipped weapon-grade anthrax, botulism, and the bubonic plague to Iraq. We also assisted Iraq in tactically using chemical weapons effectively against the "human waves" of Iranian soldiers.

Of course Iraq has factories where it can "produce" WMD, but they do not procreate by virgin birth. Many US companies -- Honeywell, American Type Culture Collection, Dupont etc. -- were complicit in the building of the Iraqi war machine. The US Commerce Department authorized the use of chemical and biological "precursors" to Iraq.

Moreover, if Saddam is such a wildman without the ability to be deterred or appeased, then why didn't he use chemical weapons against our troops during the first Gulf War? Why didn't the terrorists on 9-11 unleash Saddam's arsenal against the United States? If there are links between Osama and Hussein, and if Saddam is so eager to hand out his bio-chemical arsenal to terrorists, then why didn't that happen on 9-11? And most importantly, if Saddam has and is willing to use bio-chemical weapons, why didn't he use them in this war when his reign was coming to a decisive end?


Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 21, 2003 07:02:50 PM

Dean,


"I don't know who these "neocons" are that you speak of."

Well, I hate to give away answers, but I'll give you a hint -- you have recently posted a message on a neocon bulletin board run by someone who has devoted his life to sucking up to neocons.

Before the onset of war Iraq was not a threat to its neighbors, that is why the Arab world -- along with much of the rest of the world -- did not support a US invasion. I am not exactly sure why you brought up Kuwait. If I recall that was over ten years ago, and during this war there was no Arab consensus to topple the Hussein regime.

I do not know where you got the information that our alliance with Iraq was strictly of a non-military nature. This directly contradicts National Security Directive 114 that instructed the Pentagon to use any available means to insure that Iraq does lose the war with Iran. Your statements are also contradicted by the fact that the Reagan Administration removed Iraq from the list of states that sponsor terrorim in 1982 just to make such weapons transfers legal.

When Donald Rumself visited Iraq in December of 1983 Iraq was using chemical weapons on a daily basis against the Iranians, but there was no direct condemnation by the United States.

Declassified documents show that we shipped weapon-grade anthrax, botulism, and the bubonic plague to Iraq. We also assisted Iraq in tactically using chemical weapons effectively against the "human waves" of Iranian soldiers.

Of course Iraq has factories where it can "produce" WMD, but they do not procreate by virgin birth. Many US companies -- Honeywell, American Type Culture Collection, Dupont etc. -- were complicit in the building of the Iraqi war machine. The US Commerce Department authorized the use of chemical and biological "precursors" to Iraq.

Moreover, if Saddam is such a wildman without the ability to be deterred or appeased, then why didn't he use chemical weapons against our troops during the first Gulf War? Why didn't the terrorists on 9-11 unleash Saddam's arsenal against the United States? If there are links between Osama and Hussein, and if Saddam is so eager to hand out his bio-chemical arsenal to terrorists, then why didn't that happen on 9-11? And most importantly, if Saddam has and is willing to use bio-chemical weapons, why didn't he use them in this war when his reign was coming to a decisive end?


Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 21, 2003 07:04:07 PM

Failure to use weapons is certainly not an indication of either deterrability nor of absence of said weapons.

Keep in mind that the Nazis had developed nerve agents, and Hitler was more than prepared to bring down the German people as he was in his bunker. Yet, for reasons that STILL remain unclear (but almost certainly was not out of either deterrability nor love of humanity), was not prepared to use his CW stocks against the Allied forces "invading" the Reich.

As to whether or not Iraq posed a threat, it is interesting, is it not, that states that supposedly perceived no threat were prepared to allow us to base an invasion from their territory (Kuwait) or command it (Qatar) or supply it (Bahrain)? For states that perceived "no threat," according to you, they certainly were prepared to undertake belligerent steps.

Only Saudi Arabia comes close to your description---and that could as easily be attributed to serious questions about American resolve (since they'd seen us NOT topple Saddam both in '91 and in '92-'00) and the fact that, if we didn't, they'd have to live w/ him.

Nor did I say that our relationship w/ Iraq during the period 1980-1989 was of a "non-military" nature. What I DID say was that the US did not arm Iraq militarily (and we provided a paltry couple million dollars, iirc in total military sales). American support was, for the most part, in provision of intel.

You cite NSDD 114, yet, in reading it over, nowhere does it say that Iraq is to be supported and its victory ensured.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsdd/

More to the point, 1983 was not and is not the present. Your argument is tantamount to saying that our opposition to the USSR in 1962 made no sense, since in 1942, we were not only supplying the USSR, but US sailors were actively dying to provide it w/ that support.

Times change, circumstances change. Conservatives, w/ their understanding of realpolitik should understand that better than most?

Posted by: Dean at April 21, 2003 07:45:51 PM

I still hold out a faint glimmer of hope that one day neo-conservatives will awake from their dogmatic slumbers and realize that this ideologically driven war against Iraq was not to protect American interests, but to promote a "benevolent global hegemony."

Not only did Saddam not use bio-chemical weapons against our troops storming into his country, but he didn't use them during the first Gulf War. So how did Saddam get a reputation for being such an undeterrable madman?

The question that needs to be answered is not whether or not Saddam was a sadistic bully who ruled Iraq with an iron fist, but was this invasion of Iraq a strategic imperative?

During the 1980's Saddam was using chemical weapons on a daily basis against the Iranians, and we did not find this to be sufficient grounds for toppling his regime. In fact, we largely treated his incessant use of WMD with muted lips.

So if Saddam -- in the opinion of Reagan -- was not a threat to the US when he was using chemical weapons almost daily, then why do we need to overthrow his regime now when 90-95% of his arsenal has been destroyed and he has shown no belligerence to the United States. Indeed, something is really rotten about this whole war, and hopefully one day the truth will come out.

Following our "victory" in Afghaninstan, Novak wrote a column that identified Iraq as the next target in the war on terror. As he said in a recent column, he didn't mention one word about weapons of mass destruction because no such word was mentioned to him by all the Bush policy advisors.

The neocons who have long favored overthrowing Hussein never made WMD or links to terrorism as the raison d'etre for a war. Terms like the "strategic interests of the Middle East," or "promoting American ideals abroad," were the motivating factors driving this war. Of course concoting bizzare conspiracy theories about links between Osama and Hussein and inciting fear about Iraq's non-existent bio-chemical arsenal helps provide a fig leaf of legitimacy, but all in all this war was driven by lies, and remains unjust. The amazing tactical success of our military does sanctify the lies and deceptions that the Bush Administration took us to war on.

Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 22, 2003 03:55:22 AM

None so blind as he who will not see.

Do you think that there are no links between Iraq and terrorists? Iraq and al Qaida? They are quite plain. You refuse to see them.

You don't think Iraq had WMD and WMD development programs? You're gonna get Von Hoffmaned real soon here.

Posted by: blaster at April 22, 2003 07:48:48 AM

Very well said, Mr. Weller!!

Those comments are very well articulated, and very correct as well.

I have just skimmed through Paul Kennedy' column, and I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but overall, it looks very good. The neoconservative vision is rooted in the political philosophy of idealism, not realism. There is nothing truly "conservative" or "republican" about it - it more Wilsonian in nature. I recenty spoke to a leader at one of our nation's leading conservative organizations for youth and college students. (It was shortly before they held a major pro-America, pro-troops rally in Washington, D.C.) I explained to him why I had opposed the war, along with many other conservatives, and it was refreshing to hear that he basically agreed with everything I said! He confirmed that many people who he knew had been opposing the war. The ideology behind the support for this war is actually contrary to the principles of American conservatism and the values of the Old Republic which our heroes of 1776 left us.

The neoconservative and neoliberal vision of globalism, promiscuous intervention, and government expansion is a betrayal of the wisdom of our Founding Fathers, a betrayal of our American heroes who have served our nation faithfully over the years, a violation of platform of the Republican Party of Texas (the president's party) and of several other Republican and conservative platforms, and more importantly, a blatant violation of our Constitution.

It is vital that we support our troops, wherever and whenever they are deployed. Much of the warfare, intervention, and military actions that our nation has been involved in within the past decade, however, have not been in our national interest, and have weakened our country's defense forces overall, while jeopardizing the security and safety of our citizenry. These policies, if not curtailed and reversed, will have disasterous effects on our nation and our people.

Posted by: Aakash at April 22, 2003 04:46:35 PM

Very well said, Mr. Weller!!

Those comments are very well articulated, and very correct as well.

I have just skimmed through Paul Kennedy' column, and I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but overall, it looks very good. The neoconservative vision is rooted in the political philosophy of idealism, not realism. There is nothing truly "conservative" or "republican" about it - it more Wilsonian in nature. I recenty spoke to a leader at one of our nation's leading conservative organizations for youth and college students. (It was shortly before they held a major pro-America, pro-troops rally in Washington, D.C.) I explained to him why I had opposed the war, along with many other conservatives, and it was refreshing to hear that he basically agreed with everything I said! He confirmed that many people who he knew had been opposing the war. The ideology behind the support for this war is actually contrary to the principles of American conservatism and the values of the Old Republic which our heroes of 1776 left us.

The neoconservative and neoliberal vision of globalism, promiscuous intervention, and government expansion is a betrayal of the wisdom of our Founding Fathers, a betrayal of our American heroes who have served our nation faithfully over the years, a violation of platform of the Republican Party of Texas (the president's party) and of several other Republican and conservative platforms, and more importantly, a blatant violation of our Constitution.

It is vital that we support our troops, wherever and whenever they are deployed. Much of the warfare, intervention, and military actions that our nation has been involved in within the past decade, however, have not been in our national interest, and have weakened our country's defense forces overall, while jeopardizing the security and safety of our citizenry. These policies, if not curtailed and reversed, will have disasterous effects on our nation and our people.

Posted by: Aakash at April 22, 2003 04:47:38 PM

Blaster,

What "links" are there between Osama and Hussein? Even the pro-war propagandist Thomas Friedman of the New York Times reproached Powell and Bush for trying to implicate Saddam for the 9-11 terrorist attacks.

Friedman said that the reason Powell and Bush tried to link the two was not because there was supporting evidence, but because it showed more Americans would support the war if they thought Hussein was complicit in 9-11. In other words, it was the result of poll-driven propaganda, not solid evidence.

Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 23, 2003 07:54:27 AM

Edwin, you are conflating issues. Powell and Bush have not tried to implicate Hussein for 9/11. But he has long ties to al Qaida.

In addition to the recently exposed Iraqi liaison to al Qaida when they were in Sudan, there is this from the Director of Central Intelligence:

Regarding Senator Bayh's question of Iraqi links to Al Qaeda. Senators could draw from the following points for unclassified discussions:

o Our understanding of the relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda is evolving and is based on sources of varying reliability. Some of the information we have received comes from detainees, including some of high rank.

o We have solid reporting of senior level contacts between Iraq and Al Qaeda going back a decade.

o Credible information indicates that Iraq and Al Qaeda have discussed safe haven and reciprocal nonaggression.

o Since Operation Enduring Freedom, we have solid evidence of the presence in Iraq of Al Qaeda members, including some that have been in Baghdad.

o We have credible reporting that Al Qaeda leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire W.M.D. capabilities. The reporting also stated that Iraq has provided training to Al Qaeda members in the areas of poisons and gases and making conventional bombs.

o Iraq's increasing support to extremist Palestinians coupled with growing indications of relationship with Al Qaeda. suggest that Baghdad's links to terrorists will increase, even absent U.S. military action.

Posted by: blaster at April 23, 2003 09:07:18 AM

The desparate attempt of the warhawks and neocons to conflate Iraq and al-Qaeda would be laughable, if it were not seriously believe by so many people. The warmongers have taken advantage of the fact that both Saddam and Osama are Middle Eastern, and are from predominantly Muslim countries, to try to draw connections between them in the minds of people. But the fact is, if we wanted to, we could find connections between numerous Asian countries, as well as many non-Asian ones, and al-Qaeda. Yes, there have been some 'links' that are reported between people from Iraq and people from al-Qaeda, but they are tenuous at best.

I recall that, some time after 9/11, some of the neocons and globalists were telling us that Iraq was behind those terrorist attacks. We were also told that there was a meeting in Prague in the spring of 2001 between an Iraqi official and Mohammed Atta, one of the 9/11 hijackers. Then, the Czech government retracted that claim, and the CIA told us that that meeting never occurred. In fact, the CIA was not able to find a significant link between Iraq and terrorism against the United States. When President Bush gave his speech on Iraq to the United Nations on September 12, 2002, he specifically left out any claim that Iraq was behind the terrorism; this non-claim of an Iraqi link to terrorism was the official position of our government. However, about a month later, we found out that the administration hawks were pressuring the CIA to alter its findings to suit their agenda.

Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden come from totally different ideologies. The taliban is rooted in a militant, extremist form of fundamentalist Islam, and has been imposing this philosophy in Afghanistan, ever since it took power there. However, when the Baath Party of Iraq was started, one of its purposes was to oppose this type of ideology. (That is one of the reasons why our government has been allied with the Baathists in the past, and viewed them as our allies in the fight against militant Islam.) It is well-known that Saddam does not believe in Islam (he is probably an atheist), and he has a track record of opposing Muslim militants. In fact, this has probably been more true of the Iraqi government than just about any other Islamic country. In Iraq, women have more rights than they do in many other countries of that region. Not only that, but the Christians of Iraq have also had more rights than they would in many other countries. "We enjoyed total religious freedom and there was no religious discrimination" against Christians, said Armenian Archbishop Avak Asadourian, in this article from Monday in the Christian Science Monitor. And Sister Beth Murphy, a Dominican nun who has spent time in Iraq working to help the people there, shared with our class information on the Christians of Iraq. They have been persecuted by the militant Muslims, but the Iraqi government, which opposes militant Islam, has worked to prevent these crimes, and has engaged in policies which have ended up protecting the Christians. The Christians of Iraq have recognized this, and some were affiliated with the Baath Party, and had been appointed to prominent positions in the Iraqi government.

Now, with no government in place, and with the Baathists removed from power, Iraq's Christians are very fearful of what will happen. This is not a good situation for them.

Because of Saddam's opposition to militant Islam, many of the terrorists, such as Osama bin Laden, have hated him, and have referred to him as a "heretic," calling for his overthrow. They want Saddam out of power also; but since they hate the U.S. as well, they don't want us to be the ones to do it.

There are always going to be some 'links' within Arab (as well as non-Arab) countries between each other. However, out of all the Arab or Islamic countries, Iraq probably has one of the weakest 'connections' to al-Qaeda and Osama. In the federal indictment against against Zacharias Moussoui, the "20th hijacker" and the mastermind of the terrorist attacks, Iraq was just about the only 'Islamic country' (country with a predominant Islamic population) that was not mentioned. Out of the major terrorist attacks on American soil during the past decade, Iraq is once again just about the only Islamic nation that has not been involved in them. The people invovled in them have been citizens of our "allies" Saudi Arabia and Egypt, as well as Afghans, Libyans, Sudanese and Yemenis.

The 'allies' of the Bush administration have more connections to al-Qaeda and the Osama than Iraq has ever had. 15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, and none were from Iraq. It was also reported in the news a year ago that money given the charities from the Saudi royal family may be tied to terrorism. After Saudi Arabia was added to the watch list of countries with regards to foreign visitors in the U.S., World Net Daily reported that the Saudis were "shocked" to learn about this; shortly afterwards, John Ashcroft announced that Saudi Arabia was our ally in the War on Terrorism. In addition to Saudi Arabia, the governments of Pakistan (which was also added to that list) and China also have links to terrorist groups.

It is ridiculous that so many hawks are talking about supposed 'links' between Iraq and al-Qaeda, while totally ignoring Pakistan, which is supposedly our ally.

See the following sites:
http://www.geocities.com/terrorthreat
http://terrorism.freeservers.com
http://www.pakistan-facts.com


General Pervez Musharraf staged an illegal coup and usurped power in Pakistan, then unilaterally changed his country's constitution to suit his power grab. As mentioned above, Pakistan also has ties to al-Qaeda and terrorism (see the above links for more information), and recently, it was reported in the news that that country is becoming more talibanized. Also revealed recently was the fact that Pakistan gave nuclear technology to North Korea, and may have helped them make a nuclear bomb. And not too long ago, the news of a shipment of Scud missiles from North Korea to Yemen made headlines; yet, as the Washington Post pointed out, this is the second time in recent months that the White House has ignored its doctrine [of preemption] to satisfy real-world demands."

As for the issue of al-Qaeda forces fighting with Iraqis against the allied troops, something which Patrick mentioned awhile back, to say that this proves a 'strong link' between the Iraqi government and al-Qaeda is hypocritical, if you look into recent history.

When Bill Clinton was deploying troops to Bosnia and Kosovo with Monica under his desk, the neocons joined hands with the President and Maddy Albright to cheer on the "humanitarian intervention" to stop the "genocide". (Billy Kristol even suggested that he might leave the Republican Party, since most Republicans in Congress opposed these insane policies of the Clinton administration - That would have been so sweet; we would be so much better of without him.)

During Bill Clinton's illegal war in Kosovo, the Republican Senate Policy Committee warned that, in intervening on behalf of the KLA (against the Serbs), the Clinton administration may be supporting a group with ties to terrorism, organized crime, and drug dealing. The neocons must have been mad; they wanted this war, but as it turns out, us anti-war Republicans were right. There are strong ties between the Islamic militants in Bosnia and Kosovo (the friends of Clinton, Albright, and neocons) and al-Qaeda. The great conservative columnist Don Feder, in his December 3, 2001 column ("West Haunted by Balkan Blunder") mentions this.

"...America can drop tons of explosives and send in the Marines to fight Taliban terrorism. But when the Serbs confronted a similar menace, they were demonized and bombed for 78 days, and had a province wrested from them and presented to Osama bin Laden's Balkan brigade."

Mr. Feder includes in his article a quote from an al-Qaeda entry application that had recently been found after we overran one of their terrorist camps in Afghanistan:

"I have Kosovo Liberation Army combat experience against Serb forces. ... I recommend suicide operations against parks like Disney."


[See more of Don Feder's pertinent columns on war here. More opinion pieces on the war in Kosovo, from conservatives, libertarians, and liberals can be found here.]

Stella Jatras, a conservative foreign policy expert and the wife of career military officer Col. George Jatras, wrote a recent article in which she summarized a great deal of the deception which occured during our previous intervention in the Bosnian civil war:

"...The civil war in Bosnia was one of images. We all saw the blood and gore CNN's Christiane Amanpour, (who is married to James Rubin, Clinton's former mouthpiece for the Department of State...), ABC's Peter Jennings, (whose former wife is now married to Richard Holbrooke, the architect of the pro-Muslim Bosnian Peace Accord), and CBS's Mike Wallace, who fed us their daily portion of swill. This is the same Mike Wallace who, along with twenty one other "journalists" went to the alleged site of mass graves near Srebrenica. When they found nothing, Wallace and the others were silent. Not one reported that the claim of mass graves was a lie. In 1995, we bombed the Bosnian Serbs over the 1994 Markale market place massacre. Of the massacre, Yossef Bodansky (author of Bin Laden: The Man Who Declared War on America) wrote in a 1995 book, Offensive in the Balkans, "Phase Three started with a self-inflicted major terrorist provocation. On February 5, 1994, a major explosion rocked the Markale ­ Sarajevo's main market place ­ causing heavy casualties. What was immediately described as the ubiquitous 'Serb mortar shell' was actually a special charge designed and built with help from HizhAllah experts and then most likely dropped from a nearby rooftop onto the crowd of shoppers. Video cameras at the ready recorded this expertly-staged spectacle of gore, while dozens of corpses of Bosnian Muslim troops killed in action (exchanged the day before in a 'body swap' with the Serbs) were paraded in front of the cameras to raise the casualty count. "This callous self-killing was designed to shock the west, especially sentimental and gullible Washington, in order to further raise the level of Western sympathy to the Bosnian Muslims and further demonize the Serbs." [my emphasis]. Other [EUROPEAN] newspapers corroborated the fact that Bosnian Muslims had slaughtered their own people on more than one occasion in order to hook Uncle Sam into supporting them. Americans, however, were not told the truth neither by our politicians with a pro-Muslim agenda nor by the U.S. media.

Today, Bosnia is al Qaeda's corridor into Europe, complete with crime and drugs. Recently the head of an Islamic charity in Chicago was caught funneling funds to terrorists in Bosnia and in Chechnya. No one wants to admit that if we hadn't supported the Bosnian Muslims, al Qaeda wouldn't be intrenched in the Balkans as they are today..."

Daniel Pearl, the famous Wall Street Journal reporter murdered by terrorists, had this refuation of genocide allegations as one of his key issues, as is mentioned here in his biography at website of the Daniel Pearl Foundation.
[www.danielpearl.org]

In 1993, Osama bin Laden was even issued a passport by the Bosnian government. Mehrez Aodouni, another known al-Qaeda terrorist, was also granted a Bosnian passport, as probably were other Osama bin Laden terrorists.

And why are the other pro-war commentators, who are so eager to point out the fact that some al-Qaeda were found fighting in Iraq, completely silent (along with just about all of the media) about the fact that the pro-al Qaeda "muhajedeen" in Kosovo and Bosnia, fought alongside the KLA (the allies of Clinton, Albright, the neoconservatives, and the neoliberals), and were granted support from our Balkan Muslim "allies" in those wars for their terrorist activities?

Answer: Because this would exemplify the hypocrasy that they are exhibiting. It would support the idea that going to war, and intervening in the affairs of other countries, often does more harm than good, and leads to the emergence of new terrorist threats. (Is this what could happen in Iraq?)

It is clear that, when the neocons and neolibs got us to intervene in Bosnia and Kosovo, they were likely supporting the supporters of Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda.

Some more information on this:

Republican Senate Policy Commitee:

Does Clinton Policy Support Group with Terror, Drug Ties?

Extended Bosnia Mission Endangers Troops


Los Angeles Times, Oct. 7, 2001:
Bosnia: Bin Laden's Terrorist Base

Washington Times, Bill Gertz, Sept. 18, 2001:
Hijackers Connected to Albanian Terrorist Cells

So, in conclusion, it is ridiculous to try to come up with 'links' between Saddam and Osama, two very evil, yet very different individuals, who hate each other, have been long-standing enemies, and would like to see each other dead, while at the same time, ignoring strong links between the governments of Bosnia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc, etc, etc, which probably have much stronger links to al-Qaeda, but who we are allied with right now.

Posted by: Aakash at April 23, 2003 05:43:57 PM

Aakash,

While you are certainly correct to point out that al-Qaeda had links, dealings, activities, etc., in places like Kosovo, you fail to prove that there were no links between Iraq and al-Qaeda (no surprise, since proving a negative is probably close to impossible).

However, your presumption appears rooted in the idea that they hated each other, and that such hatred automatically trumped all other considerations.

Historically, that is simply false. States have often aligned when their interests have demanded it, even if they hated each other. This is especially the case if a more pressing threat is perceived.

Two names for you: Hitler. Stalin.

Two people whose beliefs could not be more antithetical (in their own minds), who truly hated each other's guts, whose countries were pretty much in direct opposition to each other. Yet, 1939 was a banner year for relations between the two. By your lights, that should never, could never have happened.

Posted by: Dean at April 23, 2003 06:01:19 PM

Aakash, Edwin, et al.

Saddam doesn't support terrorism.

Well, sure, he didn't if you'd never heard of the fedayeen Saddam, the professional terrorist organization controlled by Uday. Or the suicide operations carried out against our soldiers. Or the thousand of diehard "Arab fighters" that streamed into Iraq. Or Abul Abbas. Or Abu Nidal. Forget even that the most credible report of CBW so far implicates Al Qaeda.

Feel free, of course, to make the usual polite distinctions between the global terrorists of Al Qaeda or the "has-beens" that are just carrying out legitimate acts of "resistance" and war, not acts of terror. (OK, but 9/11 was an act of war. What's your point?) Make those distinctions if you will, but please keep in mind that the terrorists/fighters/"resisters" on the ground probably don't see it that way; they see themselves as part of the same jihad against America.

It would be nice if every Al Qaeda operative were given a membership card and a uniform. But real life doesn't work that way. Al Qaeda is a group of loosely organized cells with ties to many Islamic militant groups. Before 9/11, the group Mohamed Atta had been most closely associated with was Egyptian Islamic Jihad. The point here is that, at a minimum, the "Arab fighters" from Egypt, Syria, and Saudi Arabia were cut from the same cloth as those 19 hijackers. If they weren't members of Al Qaeda, their willingness to kill Americans long after the Iraqis stopped trying indicates that they'd probably be first in line to join.

Even if we just gutted Osama's AAA farm team, this war will have been more than worth the effort from the standpoint of killing bona-fide terrorists. We smoked them out, we got a clear shot at them, and in the end probably wound up dealing directly with more terrorist-types than we did in Afghanistan. Thousands of suicide bombers or future suicide bombers were killed in Iraq. For this we should make no apology.

I have to admit, even I was stunned to the degree to which this war was helpful in draining the ranks of Al Qaeda and its confederates.

Posted by: Patrick Ruffini at April 23, 2003 11:16:03 PM

Patrick,

Please re-read my post. Your response has missed my entire point. Some form of "terrorism" could be found in a countless number of countries in every corner of the world. I would even consider some of the things that the Clinton administration did to be close to terrorism.

We were attacked on September 11th by Osama bin Laden, not by Saddam Hussein. As I was saying above, if we wanted to, we could list 'links' between al-Qaeda and probably at least 50 different countries (probably more). The countries that we are allied with right now, and the groups that we have funded and supported in recent years, and continue to support, have much greater connections to al-Qaeda - the terrorists who attacked us - than Iraq ever has had.

To say that the war against Iraq for 'regime change' is part of the post-9/11 'War on Terrorism' is naive. This plan was proposed throughout the 1990s, and Bill Clinton was pressured to do it in 1998 by the same hawks who pressured the current President (and continue to press him for more warfare). If the events of 9/11 had not occurred, they would likely still have been pressuring the President to do this Iraq war.

This war did not remove "al-Qaeda operatives" from positions within the leadership of a country. It removed al-Qaeda opponents from those positions.

Now, if fundamentalist Muslims take over the leadership of Iraq (as has been proposed by some people), Osama bin Laden will have gotten what he wanted: the overthrow of a secular, anti-militant Islam government which hates him, and the installment of an Islamic government which may, in the future, help carry out some of his goals.

We already gave Osama what he wanted in the 1990s when Clinton intervened on behalf of al-Qaeda in Bosnia and Kosovo. Now, we just may be continuing the trend.

Heaven help us.

Posted by: Aakash at April 24, 2003 01:14:59 AM

Aakash -

The whole Czech retraction thing is a lie. I could catalogue it all for you, but another blogger has done it better.

Here, here, and here.

Posted by: blaster at April 24, 2003 07:58:03 AM

Aakash -

The whole Czech retraction thing is a lie. I could catalogue it all for you, but another blogger has done it better.

Here, here, and here.

I am not entirely sure why people like you are taking Saddam's side on terrorism - why you feel that al Qaida and Hussein can't get along, when Hussein and Hamas and Hizb'allah - both religious groups - got along great.

Posted by: blaster at April 24, 2003 08:00:46 AM

Blaster,

You should also perhaps re-read my posts (and the others). No one is "taking Saddam's side" on the issue of terrorism. The fact remains that the Baathist government has an ideology that is fundamentally opposed to that of Osama bin Laden and the taliban. They have been traditional and long-standing enemies. Yes, it is possible that, had we not gone to war, they could have united, since they both hate the United States. But a lot of things are 'possible' - the same could be said about any number of different countries and leaders from every corner of the world.

As for the alleged Prague meeting, the Czech government may flip-flop back and forth about it, but our intelligence officials have contradicted that claim. If we knew that that meeting really did occur, then why did President Bush not mention that in his State of the Union address? (He mentioned many other things about Iraq.) Prior to this war, our government leaders did not claim that Saddam or Iraq was behind the 9/11 attacks.

Anyway, my posts above have already made several of these points, as have Mr. Weller's.

This type of debate is very healthy, and helps us all learn from each other.

Posted by: Aakash at April 24, 2003 06:17:59 PM

I think the point that I'm trying emphasize -- but one that keeps getting lost in the shuffle -- is that the supposed links between Osama and Hussein, and Iraq's massive buildup (allegedly) of a dangerous bio-chemical arsenal were just verbal sugar-coatings told to the American populace to make an Iraqi war more palatable.

The neo-conservatives who planned, devised, and wrote the script for this war were not acting out of fear of Iraq's elusive WMD, but out of an ideology that demand America take the lead role in asserting itself following the disruption and collapse of Soviet Power. In one essay Bill Kristol and Robert Kagan articulate a foreign policy that argues America should evince a "benevolent global hegemony." Quite disturbingly they write, "What should that role be? Benevolent global hegemony. Having defeated the "evil empire," the United States enjoys strategic and ideological predominance. The first objective of U.S. foreign policy should be to preserve and enhance that predominance by strengthening America's security, supporting its friends, advancing its interests, and standing up for its principles around the world." Implicit in this ideology is regime change in Iraq and elsewhere, but not because these nations pose a risk to the liberties and property of Americans. Their agenda is simple intervenionism in the service of an ideology, redolent of the foul Wilsonians and Jacobins of days gone by.

Their own words indict them. Immediately following the terrorist attacks of 9-11, the leading luminaries of neoconservatism penned a memo to George Bush in which they stated, "But even if evidence does not link Iraq directly to the attack, any strategy aiming at the eradication of terrorism and its sponsors must include a determined effort to remove Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq." Of course if the eradication of terrorism is now the foreign policy of the Bush Administration then Americans are in for a protracted war that they do not yet comprehend. How long before we get to the Tamil Tigers of Sri Lanka? Or the Basque separatists of Spain?

Even more damning to the neoconservatives is this column by Robert Novak where he states, "The real reason for attacking the Iraqi regime always has been disconnected from its public rationale. On the day after the U.S. launched the military strike that quickly liberated Afghanistan from the Taliban, my column identified Iraq as the second target in President Bush's war against terrorism. I did not write one word about weapons of mass destruction because not one such word was mentioned to me in many interviews with Bush policymakers."

Novak's first sentence is just a sly way of saying the Bush policymakers are full of skulduggery -- "...disconnected from its public rationale." Indeed!

The sole and necessary cause of the war was that Iraq was refusing to abide by the treaty concluding the first Gulf War by continuing the development of bio-chemical agents. But now the propaganda winds are already starting to shift. We hear things like "Freeing the Iraiqi people," "bringing democracy to the Middle East," and a bunch of balderdash that doesn't have anything to do with disarming Iraq.

Listening to the neoconservative rhetoric about a democratic Iraq spreading its germ all across the Middle East and ultimately resolving the conflict between the Palestinians and Israelis sounds more like a scene from Alice in Wonderland than a hardeaded and seasoned foreign policy.

Ruffini tactfully picks up on the new direction of the neo-conservative zeitgeist and writes, "...the criticism has shifted from thoughtful internationalism to a sort of obscurantist isolationism, skeptical of anything we could do to spread freedom."

It is erroneous to say that the US military is spreading freedom or that it has freed the Iraqi people, unless freedom means nothing more than civil unrest, looting and ethnic hatred. Freedom (or liberty) is a social atmosphere in which instiutions and norms that support private property rights, the rule of law, freedom of religion and speech, and internal harmony among the people prevail. The absence of a tyrant is not freedom. So it is premature to say that the Iraqi people are free. They are free from the clutches of Saddam, yes; but that is not freedom in the true sense of the word.

The Shi'ites are "free" to establish a religious theocracy, suppress political dissidents and persecute religious minorities like Sunnis and Christians. The Kurds are "free" to further their goal of political independence. America is "free" to grab Iraq's oil, install a puppet regime, and cancel Iraq's earlier contracts with French and Russian corporations. How all this will finally be sorted out is not yet known, but let's not desecrate a word like freedom by using it to describe the current situation in Iraq.

I imagine that neoconsevative's vision of "freedom" is just as shallow and perfunctory as their understanding of "democracy."

It seems to me that neoconservatism is just the brand of conservatism that wishes to preserve liberalism.

Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 25, 2003 02:03:19 AM

Mr. Weller,

This is a great summary of the flawed neoconservative, globalist viewpoint. It is a political philosophy rooted not in foreign policy realism, but in naive idealism. This utopian view is fundamentally leftist, and actually somewhat Wilsonian in nature, and is contrary to the vision and wisdom of our founding fathers, and the principles of liberty and republican constitutional government upon which our great nation was founded. Thank you for providing a clear commentary on this. I could hardly have said it better myself.

Posted by: Aakash at April 25, 2003 02:33:16 AM

I'm afraid that Bush has not just been taken in by a leftist spirit on foreign policy. Bush is a leftist it seems Bush on domestic matters as well. Perhaps conservatives should have known when he felt he had to call himself a "compassionate conservative."

Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 25, 2003 04:06:46 AM

Aakash -

Of course you are taking Saddam's side on terrorism. You are saying that President Bush has falsified reporting that Hussein and al Qaida are linked.

That is (was) the position of the Hussein regime. And like it or not, you have taken that same side.

I just don't see why you cling to the al Qaida=religious, Saddam=religious thing as a defense of Hussein's regime. First of all, what of Hussein's PUBLIC support of Hamas and Hizb'allah? They are religious, and he is secular, he writes checks and sends arms, they cash them and shoot them. Why does your credo fall down with these organizations? What of the Palestine Liberation Front? A lieutenant in the organization died in the bombing that started the war - he was in Saddam's bunker, meeting with the defense chiefs. And he was from a religious organization. And Abu Abbas was living in Baghdad as a guest of Hussein - the PLF had a huge training camp there. What of the call from Hussein to Muslims to defend him and Iraq? And the fact that many did indeed come and fight, from Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Sudan?

Do you deny that those things are all true?

And it isn't the Czech government that has flip-flopped on the reporting on Atta and the Iraqi intelligence guy - it wa the NYT. The Czech government has maintained it all along. And the CIA never said that he didn't - note the article you linked quotes an unnamed official - only that that they did not have evidence that he did.

But this all comes back to an argument I am tired of having - the facts are there, and you just don't want to believe them.

Posted by: blaster at April 25, 2003 11:01:29 AM

Of course that was supposed to say al Qaida = religious, Hussein = not religious

Posted by: blaster at April 25, 2003 04:20:58 PM

Blaster,

The reason Bush has not continued to use the alleged meeting between an Iraqi intelligence agent and Atta is because there is no solid grounds for doing so. This is not taking Saddam's side; this is taking the side of our own intelligence community.

The fact that Hussein's Ba'ath party is secular does not automatically preclude them from having ties with Osama, but to date there is no solid proof that Saddam and his regime played an active role in the events of September 11th.

The Moslem world is very religious and if Saddam wants to try and reach out to them and build his support, he is going to need to pander to their religious views. As this war was approaching he tried to reach out to the Kuwaitis as fellow Arabs and exhorted them to resist American demands.

If Bush wants to wipe out terrorism then it made little sense to topple Hussein's regime and end with that. The Wahhabism promoted by the Saudis, the fundamentalism preached by the Iranians, and the terrorist camps scattered all over Syria would be much richer targets -- assuming the eradication of terrorism was our real objective.

The war against Iraq was disingenous from the start as the Robert Novak article showed. Weapons of mass destruction was only a sales-pitch to the country and the UN to try and rationalize the war. The neo-cons who have been agitating for war never made WMD or links to Al-Qa'ida the reasons for war.

First Saddam's army was taking babies off incubators (a lie), then he was purchasing yellowcake uranium to build 100 nuclear bombs (a lie), then he was planning on using weapons of mass destruction against our troops (a lie), and then maybe he was harboring tons of weapons of destruction (so far looks like another lie).

Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 26, 2003 12:46:07 AM

Edwin -

You still continue to conflate the al Qaeda connection with 9/11. While noone has shown a linkage between Hussein and 9/11, they have shown the links to al Qaeda.

Dismiss them if you will. If you are going to take the word of the intelligence community, you have to take the word of the intelligence community.
Hussein has had contacts with al Qaeda going back a decade - practically as long as AQ existed.

Plus I am not sure why you think the plan is "to topple Hussein's regime and end with that." I thought you were all on about the neo-con conspiracy. If you buy into that, be consistent - Iraq is the start, not the end.

While we have reached the end of major combat action in Iraq, the war on terror still rages on. It isn't over by a long shot.

Iran is most likely the next target - but it will be as different from Iraq as Iraq was from Afghanistan. Iran is a state supporter of terrorism, and they are seeking weapons of mass destructions - most specifucally, nukes. That is the unacceptable risk, that combination right there.

Syria and Saudi and all those other guys will be dealt with in their turn - in fact, are being dealt with at some level now.

Posted by: blaster at April 26, 2003 06:42:28 PM

So here we see the true neoconservative agenda in the flesh: Iraq did not have anything to do with the terrorist attacks on 9-11 -- had no role in the planning, logistics, financing, or operations -- so we must attack Iraq and overthrow the Hussein regime. This is very interesting indeed -- we seek retribution for 9-11 by attacking a country that had nothing to do with it.

I'm well aware that if neo-cons get their way this war will not end with Iraq, but spread throughout the whole Middle East, and if the neo-cons are real lucky include other states like Cuba, North Kore and Venezuela. However, Bush should at least be honest with the American people and not try to cloud the issue by suggesting that he cares about protecting the security of the American people, or is interested in hampering those parties responsible for perpetrating 9-11. He should at least confess that neo-cons want "global hegemony" and he is prepared to waste American lives and dollars in pursuit of that objective.

Bush took us to war against Iraq on the wings of a lie. I wonder how many lies it's going to take for Bush to complete the neocon agenda if he refuses to be straight with the American people.

Let's look briefly at some of the lies and deceptions Bush has already told to convince Americans on the need for toppling Hussein's regime,

In his State of the Union speech he says, "Today, the gravest danger in the war on terror, the gravest danger facing America and the world, is outlaw regimes that seek and possess nuclear, chemical and biological weapons."

Now, how Bush came up with this only he and his psychiatrist know. The worst terrorist attacks in America history -- those on 9-11 -- did not employ any "weapons of mass destruction" against Americans. There was no anthrax, botulism, v-x nerve gas, sarin, or low-grade nuclear bomb used, but just box-cutters, and poorly trained Arabic pilots. The subsequent athrax attacks that killed five Americans mostly like came from a rogue scientist in an American lab, and not from a Middle-Eastern country. So Bush's logic escapes me: Because the worst terrorist attack in US history had nothing to do with what is conventionally called WMD, therefore the greatest threat to the US is WMD?

Of course it is obvious why Bush wants to cloud the issue. 9-11 could have been prevented if the United States took border security seriously -- something paleos have been stressing for years. However, Bush and his fellow neocons, eager to divert attention away from their dereliction in safeguarding our border prefer to make WMD the issue. If the INS had the resources to track down and evict those who overstayed their visas, or were more discriminating in handing out visas to our Saudi allies, 3000 dead Americans might be alive today. Again 9-11 had nothing to do with Saddam's (alleged) bio-chemical arsenal, so why act as if it did?

Let's look at what now appear to be more Bush distortions:

He says Saddam has 25,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulism, 500 tons of sarin, mustard and v-x nerve gas. This was Saddam's alleged arsenal that could potentially kill millions of people. Where did these weapons go?

Bush says, "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." Oops, another definitive lie that anyone could spot just with a simple google search. The foreign minister of Niger who signed the documents had not been the foreign minister since 1989. In fact, a brief visit to the CIA's own world factbook could have exposed this document as a fraud, but the Bush Administration was interested in using whatever means available to get authority to wage a war. Like Saddam, Bush was interested in deceiving, not in being truthful.

How many Bush lies and distortions will you countenance? How many dead Americans and Iraqis are worth these Bush lies?

Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 27, 2003 03:10:10 AM

Edwin's latest, distilled.

Get over 9/11. It'll never happen again.

And even if it does, we're prepared, because we know the terrorists will strike conventionally. After all, that's what they did last time! Why would cold-blooded murderers be interested in weapons of mass destruction?

The 9/11-deniers really amuse me. Their latest song and dance is to feign outrage that the murder of 3,000 American civilians should be a reason to go to war, or for that matter, even alter our foreign policy.

Just get over it, they say.

By that standard, why attack Germany and Italy for Pearl Harbor. Sure, they declared war on us, and sure they didn't like us, but we certainly could have kept out of it if we'd just stayed in our little corner like we should. Right, Edwin?

Posted by: Patrick Ruffini at April 27, 2003 09:20:51 AM

Edwin -

If you are "well aware that if neo-cons get their way this war will not end with Iraq," then why did you argue that Iraq is being presented as a be-all end all to the war on terror?

You refute your own arguments.

No need for me to help.

Posted by: blaster at April 27, 2003 11:33:35 AM

Blaster writes "If you are 'well aware that if neo-cons get their way this war will not end with Iraq,' then why did you argue that Iraq is being presented as a be-all end all to the war on terror?"

Are you being intentionally obtuse? The neocon agenda is never part of the rhetoric of the Bush Administration, so the American people are not aware of it. Currently, the Bush Administration is not publicly saying we are planning on war with Syria, Iran etc, but you can bet your bottom dollar the neocons are.

Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 27, 2003 05:49:02 PM

Edwin -

No, I am not being intentionally obtuse. If you cannot keep your arguments internally consistent, it is not my obtuseness at work.

You wrote:

If Bush wants to wipe out terrorism then it made little sense to topple Hussein's regime and end with that. The Wahhabism promoted by the Saudis, the fundamentalism preached by the Iranians, and the terrorist camps scattered all over Syria would be much richer targets -- assuming the eradication of terrorism was our real objective.

It seems here that you are syaing that we should be seeking a war with Syria, at odds with a President who you claim is toppling Hussein's regime and ending with that.

Here is my question to all conspiracy theorists: if the neocon agenda is well hidden by the White House that the American people are unaware, how is it that you got wind of it? A Robert Novak column?

Posted by: blaster at April 27, 2003 09:24:12 PM

Blaster writes obtusely, "It seems here that you are syaing that we should be seeking a war with Syria, at odds with a President who you claim is toppling Hussein's regime and ending with that."

If you took that from my argument, then you really are not very good at following the debate at all. Not only do I not favor attacking Syria, Iran, etc, I didn't even favor attacking Iraq. Has that not been made clear enough for you?

The rhetoric coming out of the Bush Administration now is that there are currently no efforts to invade Syria or Iran or any other Middle Eastern country.

The neocons, however, want a wider war with all of Islam, including the PLO. Of course decisions are not made in a vacuum, and the neocon agenda might not ever see fruition due to varying complicating factors -- like the failure of the US to uncover significant quanties of bio-chemical weapons, and thus alienating us from our UK allies; the Sh'ites agitating for Moslem theocracy making a secular democracy impossible for Iraq, or a rise in terrorist attacks against our troops for occupying. There are a million things that might thwart the neocon dream of world empire, but their vision is one thing and what they can get away with is another. I don't understand your perpetual confusion over such things that should be so obvious.

Novak's column is not saying anything new, or anything anyone who follows the antics of neocons did not already know. The Project for the New American Century, the American Enterprise Instituti, and other outposts of neoconservatism have long been advocates of regime change -- and not for reasons of WMD. Norman Podhoretz wrote an essay entitled How to Win World War IV. So neocons have long desired to redraw the lines of the Middle East; the unfolding drama in Iraq will determine whether they will be able to get away with it or not.


Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 28, 2003 12:48:08 AM

Ruffini rambles: "Get over 9/11. It'll never happen again."

The problem with debating the pro-war right is that they never bother to listen to any arguments except their own, which are usually silly, vacant, and dogmatic assertions. Never in any of my comments do I suggest that we Americans should just forget about 9-11 or act as if it will never happen again. On the contrary, I realize we live in a dangerous world, that the United States is the source of hatred of many people in the Middle East, and we should take steps to secure Americans.

However, this is not good enough for the pro-war "right." They do not wish to make appropriate and reasonable responses to avert terrorism, but mainly wish to use the events of 9-11 as a blank check for redrawing the Middle East, boosting military expenditures, instigating regime change all across the world, and insuring the America remains the only global superpower.

The terrorists on 9-11 did not use any bio-chemical weapons against the United States, yet Bush and his fellow neocons jump on the opportunity to make bio-chemical weapons (WMD) seem to be the major threat to the United States so they can force regime change against Iraq.

The asymmetry between the actual terrorist attacks of 9-11 and Bush's rhetoric is huge. If the United States had taken out Saddam and destroyed his whole bio-chemical arsenal before 9-11, the attacks would not have been prevented. However, if we had streamlind our visa process, give the INS sufficient funds and manpower to evict those who overstayed their visas, kept our borders secure, 9-11 could have been prevented. So our efforts to rid the Middle East of bio-chemical weapons will not prevent another 9-11. However, Bush's policy of open borders, pandering to Vicnente Fox, and handing out visas like popcorn still create the preconditions for another 9-11. Do not expect Bush to make anything but gestures about securing our boder though, pandering to liberal Hispanics is more important than protecting the lives and property of real Americans.

So when Bush claims to want to protect Americans, he is lying. When Bush says that WMD are the greatest threat to the United States, he is lying. When Bush says that he is taking measures to protect Americans, he is lying. When Bush says we are safer because we "took out" Saddam, he is lying. Conservatives -- real ones -- just wants Americans to be safe, Ruffini and his fellow neocons just want to drop bombs of innocent foreigners and feign concern for protecting Americans. And then when the lose arguments they like to call us names.

Posted by: Edwin Weller at April 28, 2003 06:46:15 PM

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